WERE
PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS THE SAME DURING THE REFORMATION??
There
are Protestants today who understand the plain cold and hard facts: Rome has
actually not changed since the Dark Ages. How do we know? Much of this website
with the strange people being depicted can instill into your minds the fact that
what was just stated is the truth. One such strange person was attacking the
Adventist Church. He was participating on an "Adventist" internet
discussion forum. In the course of his participation, he early told us that he
gets angry when anyone says that the papacy is the Antichrist. Of course, this
is a dead giveaway! For hundreds of years, anyone making such a statement would
have been known to be a papist. He, however, denied that he was a papist. He was
designing for us the idea that his verbal declarations have to take the
supremacy over evidence, except when we make verbal declarations. He does not
respect our word for anything.
He,
a short time after, told the forum that he will attack anything that stands in
the way of the churches uniting. He did not bother to add "with Rome."
Another poster asked him who or what will lead this great body of united
churches, and this man replied, "JESUS CHRIST!"
All
of these are dead giveaways that the man in question is an infiltrator militia
man of the papacy. Historically, there was no question on this point. That's why
they created this hyper-questioning environment that we have today in the world:
so that no other voices can be heard clearly except those of their own. That was
the agenda behind the ever popular expression, "DIVERSITY
IS THE
SECRET
OF OUR STRENGHT!" Everyone is debating pro and con and canceling
each other out, while above that confusion, singular and despot voices are
coming more and more into prominence giving us all the "FACTS". They
are almost the only ones making definite statements now that everyone has to
believe and accept. They are telling us what is fact that everyone must plainly
see.
We
met another strange person--a woman--who continued to attack Ellen White,
calling her a plagiarist. She showed much emotion and she was relentless in her
attacks. The problem is that this same woman told the forum often that we are
not to focus on anything but Christ. We are not to post about anything else. She
then proceed to make sure that PRACTICALLY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HER POSTS were
attacks against Ellen White and Adventism. From day one we tried to awaken any
kind of conscience within her, but she refused. She showed also much emotion in
declaring that Ellen White was a plagiarist. This "crime" made her
quite upset. We made attempts to expose her, and in response she accused us of
being in an "obsession" against her and that our hearts are filled
with "hate."
We
then posted documentation of the horrible Massacre of St. Bartholomew out of the
book "Foxe's Book of Martyrs." That narration demonstrated how Rome
tricked the Protestants by becoming tolerant and friendly with them. They got
the Protestants into a great celebration--(is that word becoming more and more
familiar nowadays?)--and then suddenly attacked and murdered them sparing
neither age nor sex.
When
that horrible narration was posted, there was immediate silence on that forum
from the strange people posting there. Upon prodding the strange people on that
forum again and again to respond to why their blood pressure goes high when they
document what they claim is plagiarism, and yet they get quiet and yawn over the
horrible massacre of thousands of people, the lady responded by making the
statement that both Protestants and Catholics were just the same hornery and
ruthless.
The
following is an article I found on the newsgroups that helps to support this
delusion. It says, in this portion of it:
Answers
to Objections Regarding the Church: The Catholic Church butchered 68
million people during the Middle Ages. by Gary Hoge
The
Protestants persecuted each other, and Catholics, and witches, to the limit of
their ability. If they were responsible for fewer deaths than the Catholic
Church, it is only because they controlled less territory. The "persecution
argument," then, cuts both ways. If it is an argument against the validity
of Catholicism, then it is also an argument against the validity of
Protestantism.
Let's
face it, some of our history as Christians is not very attractive, no matter on
which side of the Reformation you find yourself, and Protestants who accuse the
Catholic Church of atrocity are simply throwing stones from within their own
glass house. I will not defend the Inquisition, and other such persecutions: I
think they were barbaric. I will simply note that it was a barbaric time, by
modern standards, and that Protestants were indistinguishable from Catholics in
this regard.
We
may not be able to condone what our ancestors did, but perhaps we can try to
understand it. To do so, we need to understand that the people living back then
had a very different attitude towards heresy than we do. In the Middle Ages, the
entire society was organized around religion. Thus, heresy was not seen as
simply a matter of personal sin or ignorance, but as a crime against the public
order. To advocate a different religion was seen as a challenge to the state and
the common good. Unfortunately, this led to some terrible persecution, of which
all Christians should be ashamed.
Is
what was said here true?
We
therefore have to put the facts in order. This is just another indicator that
Rome has not changed a bit! Now, with fears about Rome coming to power again as
prophecy tells us, isn't it the time to notice that strange people defending
Rome are using deception to do it? Those were the component principles that made
Rome so dangerous: deception and oppression. What are we supposed to think if we
see these qualities again returning?
If
you therefore think that the Protestants were just the same as the Catholics who
always sought to murder them historically, check out the following differences,
and ask the strange people on the forums to answer. More than likely they will
ignore you like they have done to us.
First
however understand that Protestants did persecute. Remember, all Protestants
were even once Catholics and condoned persecution under her. It is hardly likely
that as they moved away from that system, they would not take with them some of
the characteristics of that organization. What persecution they did however, was
not nearly to be compared to what Rome has done as we will show:
1.
Do the Protestants in their base doctrines have any provision whatsoever for the
persecution or destruction of those who do not agree with her doctrines? We
already know that Rome has. Can any statement be found among their Protestant
doctrines showing that they believe they have the right to punish or even kill
Catholics or those who do not accept their beliefs?
2.
Do the Protestants have a history of constructing implements of torture? Can
these devices be found? Do any of their churches in their foundations have
dungeons underneath them or any implements of torture?
3.
Do Protestants proudly display those whom they have killed as does Rome in her
main Cathedral?
4.
Do Protestants have a history of deception that Rome has even now in the present
with the strange unscrupulous people on the forums? In most every massive attack
such as the Massacre of St. Bartholomew, the Catholics became friendly with the
Protestants, pretended to have changed, and then went to the Protestants and
told them that they had changed and wanted healing. Do we know of any time when
the Protestants went to the Catholics and say, "WE'VE CHANGED!! WE WANT
HEALING, UNITY, CELEBRATION, and PEACE!! NOW WE ARE JUST LIKE YOU??" Did
they then get them to celebrate and then start a massacre?
Remember
closely that many strange people are telling us that both the Protestants and
the Catholics were the same and just as hornery during those horrible days. Is
that so? Why would Rome come so many times to the Protestants to tell them that
she has changed and want healing, if the Protestants were just as mean and
hornery as were the Catholics? Why would they approach the Protestants so many
times to tell them that they have changed, when they were already the same as
the Protestants?
5.
Do Protestant writings show anywhere the necessity of people giving up their
liberties? We are working on statements from Dark Ages Vatican people on the
newsgroups telling us as a matter of fact that Americans should give up their
liberties. This cry is much louder now in wake of the new terrorist attacks, but
it was sounded well before that happened.
6.
Do the Protestants have any writings today which tells the world that they are
constructing a One World Government and that all, including the Catholics, must
surrender to this new structure or expect to become extinct?
7.
Do the Protestant Churches have writings revealing that they are intolerant like
Rome has? Here are some examples:
"If
Catholics ever gain a sufficient numerical majority in this country, religious
freedom is at an end. So our enemies say, SO WE BELIEVE" (The Shepherd of
the Valley, official journal of the Bishop of St Louis, Nov. 23, 1851).
"No
man has a right to choose his religion." -- (New York Freeman, official
journal of Bishops Hughes, Jan. 26, 1852).
"The
church . . . does not, and cannot accept, or in any degree favor,
liberty in the Protestant sense of liberty." -- (Catholic World, April,
1870.)
"Protestantism
has not, and never can have, any right where Catholicity has triumphed." --
(Catholic Review, June, 1875)
"Religious
Liberty is merely endured UNTIL THE OPPOSITE CAN BE CARRIED INTO EFFECT WITHOUT
PERIL TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." -- (Rt. Rev. O'Connor, Bishop of
Pittsburgh.)
"The
absurd and erroneous doctrines or ravings in defense of liberty of conscience
are a most pestilential error--a pest, of all others, most to be dreaded in a
state." -- Encyclical Letter of Pope Pius IX, August 15, 1854.
"There
is, ere long, to be a state religion in this country, and that state religion is
to be the Roman Catholic. . . The Roman Catholic is to wield his vote
for the purpose of securing Catholic ascendancy in this country." --
(Father Hecker, Catholic World, July, 1870.)
"If
the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the
hands of the Catholic clergy." -- Lafayette
"You
ask if the Pope were lord over this land and you were in a minority, what he
would do to you? That, we say, would entirely depend on circumstances. If it
would benefit the cause of Catholicism, he would tolerate you: if expedient, he
would imprison, banish you, probably he might even hang you. But be assured of
one thing, he would never tolerate you for the sake of your glorious principles
of Civil and religious liberty." -- (Rambler, one of the most prominent
Catholic papers of England, Sept., 1851.)
Notice
how that last quotation declared that the principles of civil and religious
liberty were Protestant belief ALONE, and was even ridiculing the concept!
After
displaying this to a determined papist who called us "bigots," his
reply was that we did not understand the true meaning of those statements. I
then asked him if he would understand the true meaning of those statements if
these quotations were Adventist quotations. He ignored my question.
Are
writings even similar to these found in Protestant Churches? Therefore are the
Protestants and the Catholics just the same? Is it true that the Protestants
murdered sufficient Catholics to be worthy of note while Rome did not do
similarly worthy of note? How come Foxe's Book of Martyrs and other Protestant
writings tell us that Rome is intolerant, uses deception profusely to accomplish
her aims, and never changes, yet the very writings of Rome herself confirm this,
and yet strange folk are around telling us that we don't even understand the
clear language written above, but we are just bigots for posting them?
Look
at the dates of these declarations folks! These were all written LONG AFTER
FREEDOM WAS ATTAINED! As you can see here, Rome hasn't learned a thing and does
not agree with the principles of freedom that were acquired!
8.
Do we see the whole world changing to Protestant principle? Or do we see it
changing to papal globalistic principles as we speak and even against all the
strong opposition to it?
9.
Did Rome come up with the principles of freedom which we enjoy today and which
the forum Jesuits pervert even. They are telling us that everyone has the right
to disagree. I believe that also. But how come thence they are teaching us,
telling us what is clear, plain, up, down, scriptural, erred and the like and
are not accepting this rule by actions, by do so by lips?
10.
If you are a Protestant, does your church have secret orders like the Jesuits,
the Knights of Columbus and all? Since Rome has these orders, can you explain
why your church doesn't need them? What is their purpose? What they are doing
now, etc?
One
person in particular has said that the attendance in the Roman Church is sadly
languishing, and that the Jesuits and other orders are there to correct that. If
you are a Protestant and that happened in your church, would you create secret
militia orders to make horrible oaths, to infiltrate and subvert societies and
armies and all? Since Rome has these orders and the other churches do not, has
attendance at Catholic Churches been percentage-wise significantly greater than
that of the other churches?
With
these orders comes the mandate for the elimination of the principle of
Separation of Church and State. Rome, like during the horrible past, goes into
both STILL! Does your church do that?
The
question again is: Were the Protestants and the Catholics the same? The answer
is clearly NO! We are therefore contending with the same deceptions that
empowered the Inquisitions of the Dark Ages!
END
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